(no subject)

[niko]

Well, I think MediaWest is a bit of a bust for me.

I ran into similar problems as what I ran into last year - just not a lot of intersect between my particular niches of fandom and the rest of the attendees in most of the panels I attended, and not having any idea how to go about trying to connect with anyone outside of panels.  (Example of the former: the one anime panel - one of the reasons I've switched from going to anime cons to media cons was that I feel like the folks here are a bit more of my peers.  Anime cons are dominated by teenagers and men, not adult women.  So this panel caught my eye for a chance to talk anime with my peers for a change.  The other people who attended the panel?  Two adult men, and a teenage girl.  All my grand dreams of discussing anime from an adult woman's perspective, yaoi vs. slash, anime through the lens of media fandom, etc. went *right* down the drain. :P

I was also made of *fail* in trying to participate in Mag7 panels.  If I had more chutzpah, I'd show up at the Mag7 party they're having tonight, but with how everyone else in the panels seemed to be on a first-name basis and clearly had known each other for years and years, I just can't picture showing up (solo) as the only stranger in a room full of old friends.  I don't have the cajones for it right now.  It was cool to put faces to names of people whose work I've read on blackraptor, though. :)

On a more meta-y, less whiny note: One thing I found interesting/frustrating is how dismissive some folks seemed to be of the fandom presence on LiveJournal.  I can't say I've ever been thrilled with how decentralized and loosey-goosey LJ allows fandom to be, and I always look back at the heyday of The Sentinel as an ideal fannish situation - *ONE* primary discussion list, *ONE* primary fic-posting list, and *everything* posted to the fic list automatically gets grabbed for a single comprehensive archive (on the gen side, anyway... I think TS's slash fandom had a similar situation with 852 Prospect).  And yes, I've certainly thought about nagging LJ-writers to put their stuff up on Blackraptor, because the 'single comprehensive archive' thing, in particular, is pretty attractive to me.

But I feel like to ignore LJ at this point is just cutting off your nose to spite your face.  Especially knowing how abso-freaking-lutely *AMAZING* the Mag7 community here is, I can't imagine missing out just because I have qualms about the format or whatever.  There were a couple times where something on LJ was mentioned, and there were at least a few people in each panel where you could practically hear their eye-rolls.  *eye-roll*  ;)

Comments

[vr2lbast.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry to hear MediaWest didn't do it for you.

I've had problems with the decentralized nature of livejournal myself when it comes to fandom, but I've also found a lot of great stuff here and great communities. Turning one's nose up at it (or rolling one's eyes as the case may be) is just ignoring a host of possibilities.

Then again, I also like yard sales, farmers markets, and shopping at places that aren't huge department stores. Sometimes you just can't get everything in one place. Or something.

[solosundance.livejournal.com]

This is very interesting to me, being involved in a handful of fandoms almost entirely through and on LJ. I don't blame you for not wanting to "crash" an old-pals party, although it's a shame - they should be reeling you in *g* Must admit that although I too like the idea of a single comprehensive archive, one of the reasons (aside from idleness of course) that I haven't submitted my stuff to Blackraptor is because of their guideline "do not submit stories that are already available at another website." It's quite right if they want to maintain it as THE Mag7 archive, but on the other hand I like AO3 or wherever because I can put up (if I wasn't idle of course) all my stuff from various fandoms. And then again, looking at the fandoms I know, Mag7 does seem to be particularly decentralized ... existing very busily in lots of little pockets with their own character. Inevitable maybe ... but seems the fan presence at something like Media West should be working against that ... they should be actively seeking you out to come to their darn party. OK, I'm done. Back to my pocket :)

[nikojen.livejournal.com]

Yeah, Weiss is a fandom that really drives me crazy on the decentralized thing. :) I'm in some fandoms where it's expected that folks will announce their new work in the central comm(s), even if it's housed elsewhere, so it's possible to keep up with most new work by watching a handful of comms. With Weiss, I hardly ever see that done, even though I know there are things being written for various theme communities and the like. Makes me wonder what all I'm missing out on, and my completist little heart iz sad. :)

[nikojen.livejournal.com]

Oh, wow. I knew Blackraptor has issues as an archive, but I didn't realize that it treated stuff posted elsewhere differently. I see that she'll link to it from the character page, but doesn't seem to mention it on the main page, which is where I usually look for new additions. That is just odd.

A while ago, I had this grand scheme to create a more useful, searchable "archive" by just linking to *EVERY* Mag7 story I could find in a giant delicious list, with keyword tags, etc. Kinda makes me want to revisit that. :P

I'm also *really* rooting for AO3 to take over the universe. I've been in love with it since astolat's original post for *exactly* this same reason. The thrill of having someplace to go that groups everything together but *also* gives you the tools to find the particular kind of story you're looking for on this particular day... very cool.

[vr2lbast.livejournal.com]

I know I end up finding out about some fic by people whose journals I follow completely by accident because they don't put the fic up themselves, just link the contest or exchange com entry into their memories section. At least it's there, but if you don't know about the com to begin with, it can be a pain.

You mention AO3 in reply to another comment. Do you archive there? How is it? What I've heard of it has been a bit ambiguous, so I'm not sure what to think.

[dj-aida.livejournal.com]

I'm also involved with fandom through LJ mostly, though I do have my own (rarely updated, sorry to say) website. I tried Yahoo groups, but it's very difficult reading posts there, especially for someone like me who's on digest because I don't have a lot of time to devote to cleaning up all the extraneous info. LJ's friends page is perfect for me.

...one of the reasons (aside from idleness of course) that I haven't submitted my stuff to Blackraptor is because of their guideline "do not submit stories that are already available at another website."
I forgot about that part, and yes, I'm sorry that guideline exists. What happens if that story then gets pulled down, or a website goes bust (as was the case with Geocities )? Not everyone stays active in a fandom years after they've submitted a fic, so there's no way to contact them to ask about archiving it.

How does one centralize a fandom? What is the incentive for fans to start posting all their creations because there's more to fandom than just fics - in one place? In Mag7, there's Clarion News, whose purpose is to serve as a news central - how does one convince people to start using it more when, like nikojen say, there are those who scoff at LiveJournal?

[dj-aida.livejournal.com]

A while ago, I had this grand scheme to create a more useful, searchable "archive" by just linking to *EVERY* Mag7 story I could find in a giant delicious list, with keyword tags, etc. Kinda makes me want to revisit that. :P That sounds like an awesome project. Like I said above, the one thing I want most when it comes to Blackraptor is a searchable archive. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem like that is going to happen.

AO3 is fantastic. I can search through it within seconds to find something I want, and then fine tune my search if I change my mind about what I'd like to read. I'm looking forward to the day when they start accepting other types of fanworks - I think I remember that being mentioned somewhere. Right now fanartists and vidders have very limited options for their work: either LJ or setting up our own sites, which is not a viable option for some (vidders especially due to the large size of their creations and their legality which is questioned by some). Yahoo groups are horrible when it comes to anything graphics related.

[solosundance.livejournal.com]

Right now fanartists and vidders have very limited options for their work ... which is a real shame. One of the nicest things about livejournal is that it's a place for all kinds of creations. I wish the scoffers wouldn't scoff :(

[nialla]

I've been wanting to go to a fandom con for a while now, but I'm leery of getting there and having it be the "old friends" situation. Seeing your friends is part of the fun of conventions (I have some friends I rarely see outside of con trips), but when you don't know any of them beyond maybe reading their work, it can feel rather awkward.

I'm wondering if the dismissal of LJ was simply because it's decentralized. A lot of folks in various fandoms migrated to DreamWidth and got rather snobby about it to those who are exclusively or primarily on LJ. That could be an issue, because to them, LJ is no longer the "cool" place to post.

I found it interesting that some of the people who ran a forum for one show came and went from LJ very quickly shortly after I joined up. I think it was simply because they couldn't enforce their rules here and they didn't like that idea. At all. They couldn't force conversations along the path they wanted and it was amusing to watch them retreat and claim LJ was a waste of time. ;)

I quickly figured out I didn't like the "One list to rule them all!" idea once I figured out LJ Land. One list can overwhelm me if it covers everything instead of just a pairing I'm interested in. I lose interest and skim trying to find what I want until I give up. I do like the "newsletter" style comms when I'm testing the waters in a new fandom to see what's out there, but bless the poor maintainers for keeping up with all that stuff. Some comms also do affiliate listings on their profile page, which helps in finding other comms of interest.

I'm really liking the AO3 model. People can post where they like, but then also post there as part of the ultimate central fandom archive with subdivisions for each fandom. Nice place to browse, though even there I can be overwhelmed with choice in one fandom, while watching tumbleweeds go by in another. I feel like I should pimp for it in some fandoms to increase the entries. ;)

[nikojen.livejournal.com]

They couldn't force conversations along the path they wanted and it was amusing to watch them retreat and claim LJ was a waste of time.
Heh, there was a lady who went on quite a while about how awful LJ is. She'd had a bad experience where she posted a response in someone's personal journal and the OP didn't respond (or responded with something bitchy... I forget the details) and she had decided from that that LJ wasn't worth her time. Half the panel was spent trying to convince her that one bad interaction does not make the entire LJ community worthless. :P

I quickly figured out I didn't like the "One list to rule them all!" idea once I figured out LJ Land.
I think a lot of it hinges on getting lucky with your fandoms and how well they self-organize. In my two main fandoms, the community of one is very good about announcing new fanworks in central locations, so you can subscribe to the main comms and get most of what's going on. But the other is very much *not*. That's where it gets frustrating... I know people are writing in the fandom occasionally, but they don't bother to announce it, so you just hope you stumble over it at some point.

But yeah, the AO3 model you describe is definitely the best of both worlds. :)

[nikojen.livejournal.com]

Yeah, with how the site seems to be done with straight html, I don't know how she'd be able to make it searchable without a load of work. Unless the "google" search that I've seen some sites use would do it... but to make it really useful, I think it would need to have summaries added, which would definitely be a *load* of work.

When I started trying to do the delicious index, I got partly through the A's and ran out of steam, because I was trying to actually read and/or skim every story and put at least a basic summary and keyword tags. It was all good when it was stories that I liked, but got tricky when I hit stories in universes that didn't appeal to me, or just... weren't very good. :)

I'm definitely looking forward to AO3 doing something for vids & art, too.

[nikojen.livejournal.com]

I... uh, no, I haven't put anything up at AO3 myself, actually. My handful of writing didn't seem worth bothering with. Which, if someone else had said that in my hearing, I'd be telling them to STFU and archive it already, so yes, I'm aware that I'm being hypocritical. ;)

I've mainly used the archive for browsing fic, and in that respect, it's definitely not perfect, but I'm 100% on board for the principle of the thing, if nothing else... the idea of having a place where stories are designed to *STAY*. That they won't get lost if LJ decides to kill an account or the writer drifts away from fandom and doesn't bother to keep her website active, or whatever.

I also think the tagging system is much more flexible and searchable than ff.net has ever been, so I don't feel like I'm slogging through a thousand false positives when I go looking for a particular story or type of story.

So, yeah, you should totally sign up. :)